PTW sounded "grindy"
Figured it was the pinion gear height that needed adjustment.

Height was dead on at 16.33mm, so no issues there.
Ran a few more tests on the system, decided to run a few full auto cycles. Pitch drastically changed and "Arrghagrg Ark Aeurgharark!" she was dead.

Had a good laugh when it decided to commit suicide though.


Higher res close up of the damage.
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Wow looks like its wound to tight, send it back they'll cover that under warranty

Ya, I'm sure it will be covered. :)

yeah they are very good at backing up their product, one of my buddy got a bad motor they exchange it with no issue

wow lol
Mine came with a brush spring that was cracked in half, glad they have great customer service

Got some trigger time over the holidays, played with a small batch of guys from work in one of their farms/land up at Gravenhurst, at -21C with wind chill, lots of snow in the ground and plenty of fresh snow coming down.

The 416D performed great with lots of consistent long shots and plenty of power from the 11.1 20C LiPo from Gen Ace available at Airsoft store (Thanks Stealth), The first mags were shooting kinda weird with a few shots landing 10ft away and a few going up and down but after a couple of mags the shots did go back to original consistency (I assume that overnight storage and cold freezing hop up have to do with it).
The day went rather well, although there was a slight scare when I tripped and I lost my gun in the snow (I was almost waist deep in snow), it took a bit of a few minutes to finally find the damn thing, the gun itself was covered in snow including the inner barrel. Just as a precautionary I field stripped the rifle, the inside was also covered in moisture but nothing serious (Thank god for water proofing from factory) after shaking off excess snow in the inner barrel and nozzle I return to the game with zero issues.

Through out a 6hr play I used up about 2 bags of bastard .25 and about 3 batteries with lots of tri-burst, semi and full auto action (cold weather play has to do with the high power consumption), zero issues with board and performance even after the burial in the snow. My only complaint would be the bitch of a time to take out the board to switch it from Tri burst to full auto, normally this can be done easily in the workbench but out in the field in freezing climate it’s a bitch and I would have to recommend that this is done indoors the night before.

Coming Soon to your FCC dealer and my rifle

2013 Prologue - YouTube

and for those that must have an ultra torque gearset/box that will also be out on around the same time, good for M160 and up.
Production of the ambi box is set to finish in late January and early February should be ready to ship out in early February, quality are top notch and pre production model/sample are very solid, engagement are crisp

I purchased an FCC replacement motor and installed it. Seems to be holding fine. Did some stress testing and there is no cracking of the armature unlike the previous motor which is now under RMA at FCC.

purchased?? wasn't it covered by warranty?

It was, however FCC currently does not offer cross shipping for customers/dealers. So in order to replace, they need to receive your RMA'd product and then access it under warranty before shipping out a replacement unit. To ship a Motor to FCC with Canada post under xpress post came to $78.00 shipping. So I had to opt for the 15-16 day shipping, as there is no way I am paying 80 bucks to send a broken motor to HK.

Thus it was faster for me to just order another one, and eventually have a replacement motor shipped to me.

Now I'll have a spare motor that can be used in a second lower receiver.

Just got my FCC 416 kit looking forward to assembling this bad boy.

Well I have had my first problem with my new 2.5 motor. I have put probably about 8-9 mags through my gun and then it just stops out of the blue. Opened it up and this is what I find.

http://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/...3/fccmotor.jpg

You can see the part where it's cracked right down the middle. 13$ fix so not bad but I would have expected them to last quite a bit longer.

Your brush leads need to be run in the same channel with the spring. FCC never does this on their motors, so you must make sure it gets done. Otherwise, as the brush wears, the wire lead will stop it from moving and your brushes will have continually reducing contact with the commutator. It will lead to arc damage to the commutator and malfunction of your motor.

I bought a brand new FCC motor and one of the brushes was cracked on arrival, they replaced it for free though!

did they send you a new brush or a whole new motor? does fcc sell brushes?

Also thanks mcguyver.

They sent me a pair of brushes, they have them in stock, dunno if they sell them separate

Meant to post these up a few weeks ago but too busy at work so here they are.......upcoming FCC products

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e4...psbe69d759.jpg
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e4...psdb0fbf4b.jpg

... Is that... A 7.62 platform?

Mother of god.

How about them pmags for the 416, I'm in dire need. If they don't come out soon I may be buying more stanag mags.

You can purchase PTS PTW E-mags, they fit and feed perfectly in the FCC 416's.

Yes

They are tight on the first insert and after two or three times it's perfect I have 4 that I'm using now definitely lighter than teh stock Systema metal mags

Off topic slightly...anyone order Rampo's PMAG shells from FCC and have CBSA give you grief over (incorrectly) classifying them as prohib hi-cap magazine parts? I'd like to order some shells as I have a bunch of bnib Vanaras internals but I'm just a wee bit leery. Completed magazines are one thing as they're obviously airsoft in origin, but empty PMAG shells (even Rampo's clones) look "close enough" to the real deal that I am worried about placing such an order and having some airsoft-unaware (and likely overworked) CBSA officer pull the shipment.

Meanwhile, I will contact DTT for their opinion but it doesn't hurt to ask around obviously...

Thanks,
Fly

nope mine went through with no issue

No feed lips = not a magazine.

If they can not hold real rounds and feed them, they are nothing but a hunk of plastic.

Anyone else order an FCC ambi gearbox here? Any thoughts on it?

they are awesome engagement is firm with a nice click no play at all

For the gearbox, can the speed run the m150?

No speed rated box are good up to M130 but anything more than that you will need to upgrade to torque but in most cases in any games you are not going to need anything more than a M130(gold cylinder) I never use anything more than a blue Cylinder M110 for outdoor

The best result I have so far are with the M90 Cylinder (both FCC and Systema) with the FCC having a better airseal and a slightly higher FPS, same for the Blue/M110 the M90 have a distinct snap and when you do a rapid tap it was mistaken for full auto several times.

in reality you have really no need for teh torque box unless you are making a high powered DMR, my FCC XM177 have teh torque box if I ever have a chance to do it all over again I would have swapped that box to the speedbox.

Thanks guys! Good to know.

Fly

FCC @ Toronto airsoft convention
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STAY TUNED FOR SOME SPY PICS OF THEIR UPCOMING NEW RIFLE RELEASE!

Can't wait to receive my Diplomat!

Soon my friend soon

Congratz!!

OHMAIGAWD!!!!! Love the silver receivers! Wildcard thx for the pics but everyone wants to see the official release!!!!

Soon buddy I have the pics in my computer but can't release them yet, one of the silver rail (midwest style) is going to be on the new rifles, other platform release will be done as soon as the Q/A are done. Those silver are actually grey and they are not going to be released for the masses they are prototypes and one off models from the FCC boys, it's like stuff they do when they are bored.

*Hint* Those who missed out on the 416D they will have another shot with another limited release of the 416D and a very limited 20 unit production of the 416 used in the Zero dark thirty movie. So contact DTT and put your name down for these limited edition 416

Still waiting for the new stuff. But I gotta say my logical conscious is trying to get me to back down, and it's putting up a good argument lol!
Quick take my money before I do something smart!!!

Have a little patience everything will be revealed this weekend I can guarantee you that it will be worth the wait.

they are not silver in person, they are more gun metal grey , and they are Very nice..

Hey Wild will Chris or your self have pictures of the Zero drk thirty build?

Thanks

Yes once they pass their QC, nothing gets released until they pass QC, but here is a teaser shot
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e4...ps042d649e.jpg

For 2013 FCC will be introducing their new FTW, they will come in three different Variations, CQB/Diplomat, Tactical Carbine and DMR style, each will feature the following:

- Unique individual serial number series
- FCC Ambi gear box in Speed or Torque
- FCC Cylinder 90/110/130
- Mini mosfet/ECU, with semi, tri burst and full auto capable
- Tango down grips
- Cast body with individual serial number and laser etched Fight club custom logo
- Midwest style slim battle rail
- 6 position Milspec buffertube
- CNC magazine catch, trigger guard, Charging handle
- Noveske low profile gas block
- FCC flashider, butt stock and complete inner barrel and hop up
- FCC Rampo Pmag
- 3 month end user warranty
- MSRP under 2K
Basically this is a ready to go package all you need is battery. The difference between this and the regular FCC riffle is the CNC parts and body, the new FTW are more affordable than the other FCC rifle due to use of cast body instead of CNC, eventhough the body and the mechbox are cast and not CNC they still go through the strict FCC QC. Basicly what you get is essentially a base model rifle without the other blingtastic features. Other enhancements could be added on later. For under 2K you get a lot of enhanced features that you would not get from a Systema PTW and did I mention that ALL FCC Rifles comes with a 3 month warranty?. Now for the gun porn
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Please contact your local FCC dealer or PM me if you have any questions

For under 2k my interests has been peaked. I am awaiting more details :)

FCC new FTW line will be done and released in mid April pending on their final QC it will be in authorized Canadian retailers no later than late April or early June, the price will be the same for all three variants and these units are also customizeable if you choose to add some Bling to it

This, anything over 2k I really cannot justify spending that much to anyone, even myself.

I was like that once. Just wait until you get deeper into the sport :)

I'm a converted believer in FCC

LOL, wow did you pick the wrong obsession.... er, sport I mean.

Yeah just wait till you can justify two of them( ones the wife's I swear ;) ) and all the other wall hangers in the background.

Next step is g2+ or g3 NV lol that excuse is almost plausible.

I just got to fondle the custom Noveske FTW's, very neat looking for sure. It's exciting all the products they are planning to release as well (minus the AK of course...lol). FCC has some nice stuff.

Or three, four and the next platform launch

We dont talk about fight club........Jk wait till you fired one thats how I got hooked, it's almost as bad if not worse as going to a gunstore not knowing which one to pick and the sales go "here try this one" like most of us who have FCC we are all converted believer. Airsoft is like a magic wonder drug no matter how much you think you can control it, say NO and not buy more, you always end up with more shit in your basement of all things airsoft. Things you discover later on that you have forgotten that you bought years ago an dthe only reason why you've discover it is because you've run out of hiding space.

This summer is my first FCC PTW, next year will be my gen3 NV. :D

Oh and in between were looking at developing a 160 acre airsoft field near pigeon lake so whatever extra cash I might have left could go into that :)

Although many FCC parts are superior to Systema, I still haven't seen a shooting improvement. I do like the CNC'd bodies for starters, but I find the Systema barrel, hop-up, and motor to be better. Let me explain; "the evolution barrel and bucking was a slight performance boost over Systema's previous models, but not be much, they did not however "need" a hop mod to reach performance standards; "though I'm sure it would help". My old ass Frankenstein Systema built from a Gen 1 chassis ranges 0.28 and 0.30 gram BBs at over 300 feet (measured), and at a man sized target; the evolutions out if the box were a little better grouping, and distance wise. I haven't had my own chance to put an FCC motor through its paces, but I have had a chance to read several reviews. It seems a Systema motor which has been properly wound is still the better motor platform; but of course that could change. In my personal opinion, the motor manufacturing was the only place an improvement "must" be made. I am happy they bettered a few other things like the receiver, because there was definitely room for improvement.

I think the best thing FCC is doing, is making more variants of the TW system of actual quality (unlike CTW, DTW, etc, which are massive flops), and of course catering to airsoft. They are however likely going to be more cash than many Systema models, and in some cases much more. So anyone looking to buy a TW AK, Scar, Masada, etc, get your pocket books out. Very worth the money though.

I've had ample chance to see and fondle all the neat products FCC has made, and to see them in action. Also their plans for future products and improvements are very exciting.

Anyone looking for anything Systema or Fight Club Custom, go to Double Tap Tactical; you won't find a better retailer in Canada. I've met the owners several times, and they are two of the nicest and honest guys you can meet.

Well FCC is still a very young company but the direction they are heading is definitely a right one and you got to give them credit for teh fact that they have improved the TW platform immensely over Systema. I have been Systema supporter since day1 however their attitude of there i snothing wrong with our product is getting really worn down there are issues with their product and they have refused to acknowledge that. I have own pretty much all their stuff from their AEG line to their first PTW, I may not have own as much PTW as Brad or some others but I did have 5 out of 6 PTW at one point sitting in various disassembly due to broken or faulty parts I swore off PTW all together at one point and went strictly AEG. In fact if it wasn't for my uber PTW that was build by Tony needing a new ECU I would'nt even consider FCC, I don't think any of my broken PTW has shot more than 2000 rnds with the exception of Tony's Build and my TW5 but with the FCC my first NST rifle went through over 50K rnds and it's still going strong, whether I'm lucky or unlucky or if its actually their product are really that good you can't ignore the evidence that is in my gun locker, even my 416 that is 6months old have gone through more than 10K from gaming and actual durability testing. Systema has done great in the TW platform but a lot of company are evolving around their tech and even begin developing better tech than Systema, I like to compare FCC like the old upstarting Systema in the mid 80's. FCC new mentality on improving their product is not just conducting test in the factory or controlled enviroment, they have a team of QA personell who are players to test their product on the field with every abuse being thrown at their product before QC process and manufacturing even begin. As for Double Tap well they are probably one of the best retailers in Canada, Honest, Fair, Reliable and most importantly owned by players that know the game, its good points and faults.

BTW FCC guys are very serious in improving their products so if any of the end users have any comments please put them up. Brad your comments and suggestions have been fowarded to the boys at FCC so keep them coming guys. Before anyone suggest new platform STOP! they are in development and details will be released in the very near future.

We actually got a chance to chit chat with FCC in person yesterday. They are working on some very cool things.

Systema has had a certain ignorance in areas of their guns; perhaps because they have had no real competition. Our team runs Systema almost strictly, and other than the odd issue we've had good luck. Motors are the only semi common failure we've seen, but they see hundreds of thousands of rounds. I'm not disagreeing that FCC isn't on the right track, because they are definitely on the right track. Companies like FCC and RA-Tech make the best better, and that's what any serious gamer wants to see. I just don't like band wagon jumpers, or people who get butt hurt because of imperfection. I switched over to Systema almost a decade ago and never went back. We do get to see all the new AEG and gas platforms, and nothing compared. The worst is people who think that a Product should never break down, and don't understand that when you rip a door off your Ferrari it costs more to replace than a door off a Honda. That's all because it's a nicer door; don't go around after yelling at Ferrari and bad mouthing them because your feelings are hurt.

If FCC keeps going like this, Systema will completely lase their market if they don't do 500% overhaul on their company, their policies, and their products.

Tell me about it, most people would think that I'm insane for wanting to keep repairing a $2K toy gun they think I should just get a regular AEG that way if something break it's cheaper to repair, they think anything cost that much stock it should be perfect out of the box. I admit sometimes I wish Systema would just swallow their pride and admit that there is a QC manufacturing issue not a design issue and that is what makes me angry and turned off by their so call improvements. after being a loyal end user of their product for over two decades I felt cheated and so do others especially with their PTW platform, the design is amazing best when compared to all teh other AEGs . I have no doubt that one day my FCC TW will fail but so far it has exceed my expectation especially for a PTW platform and they are coming very close to exceed the performance level of my former PTW that was build by the PTW master Tony himself.
Systema definitely have to change the way they do things especially after FCC will release their new gearbox design and new platform, they are slowly moving away from the Systema base design which will only help booster their reputation.

One day maybe I will be able to contribute a more indepth review on a complete FCC gun.

But a 416 kit for Jonas may come soon. It's a start at least.

New gear box? In my opinion that's one thing that isn't wrong with Systema. It'll be interesting what they come up with in improvements. I don't even run all hardened gears, and my gear box is over seven years old.

Your feedback is greatly appreciated the FCC crew will want to know what works and what is not

My FCC pinion gear got loose and tore itself apart.

I used thread lock and torqued it on hard. Don't understand how it could happen, any thoughts?

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s...ps01f22960.jpg

What threadlock did you use? I would recommend red or even epoxy to make sure the little bastard doesn't move. If the pinion gear shaft gets hot enough from heat transfer from the motor, it can cause the pinion gear to work itself free if the loctite is not strong enough. I had a similar issue awhile back, needless to say - I have increased the amount of loctite I use on parts now.

That being said, FCC will replace the part for you. :)

Louis,

i forwarded the pics to FCC tech department pm me your email I'll get them to contact you

Thought RED thread lock would be overkill. I believe you're right heat transfer could be why this happened.

Will re install with systema pinion i have left over after i clean up the gear box.

@Wildcard PM'd

Wow didn't think they would replace that at all! Good stuff, ill use the factory one for now.

Thanks

Let me know I have some spare Pinion gear here so far only yours and C3sk have had this issue, I already email them to see if there are anymore.

I don't see much threadlock residue on that screw. It could have been a little light and when the motor sha got warm, it worked itself out.

Use lots, and use red.

I have never had to put any on a pinion, as Systema uses a good amount and you need a torch to loosen it. FCC should sell their motors with pinions installed, if the shaft is the correct length, then they can all be preset to the same position. Or pull the upper shim and make the armature adjustable.

Jay, you can pass that one along to FCC as well.

Done and someone in their tech department will contact Louis, but if you are in a jam I have some extra pinions if you need them.
Installation of FCC motor & grip - YouTube

thanks

I'm using a systema pinion for now, RED thread lock this time, and lots.

Good pointers from c3sk and macguyver. Will need to clean out the gearbox and re lubricate and i'm all good.

Well, today was the day that my FCC 416 showed up, as well as a kit and a bunch of parts to complete an FCC lower with a real Aero Precision monolithic upper.

All I can say is what a load of crap.

My complete 416 has the poorest fit and finish I have seen in a gun more expensive than about $499. It was missing one of the faux trigger pins, it was never glued in place, no glue residue. The piston rod wobbled so much I had to strip the rail off and deal with it, it was incredible. Of course, I received the torque version, so it is like the Supermax from Systema with a large sun gear to reduce the cycle rate to drive the M160. My own damn fault, but at least I will take the opportunity to install a sun gear I have to make the gun usable. None of my other cylinders will work unless I do. PMags don't fit, but they don't on the real 416 neither.

The MOE grip comes with the ridiculous end cap that has 20% of it open, hey, why not get some water, debris or other crap in the motor. This is a dead easy fix at manufacturing, an oversight like this should not happen, and certainly not on a $3000 gun. Now, I get to cut another MIAD to correct this oversight.

The buffer tube is not mislpec, no surprise, my other isn't neither.

The dust cover is a real one. Nice, however, it can only be open, it can never close unless you grind off the lock. Stupid idea, it allows water and debris to enter your mag and gearbox. One more thing to fix, that should never have happened.

The screws on the sights stick out nearly 1/4". They will have to be cut off, and the end painted.

The takedown pin is aluminum (are your F#!*ing kidding me), and it wobbles something fierce. This usually means that the detent will pop out one day and the pin will fall out.

If this were a $500 WE 416, I would expect a few oversights and some fit and finish issues. On a $3000 FCC, it is utterly inexcusable. I have built in excess of 20 Systema kits and another 20-30 guns and not once have I seen this with Systema, not once. And all the parts are dimensionally accurate with their neighbours, I can take a barrel from a Gen 1 systema and install in in a 2012.

Now, the 416 kit. It is impossible to build at this time until I manufacture new screws to secure the gearbox into the lower and grind down the bolt stop. Apparanetly, FCC decided to drill and tap the holes, but they are not 3MM like Systema or their Noveske lower, nor are they 4MM. They were not 6-32 neither. So no common screw would fit. I was forced to tap it for 6-32, but now the head is too large for the countersunk mount and the bolt stop can not be installed.

Now, I received a bunch of parts to complete my other project. In their infinite wisdom, FCC decided to build their barrels with the chamber end much to large to be installed in any gun other than their own. They do not fit Systema nor real uppers, whereas Systema is a perfect fit. It took removal of their cheap roll pin, which crumbled when I tried to pull it with pliers, in order to severely grind the outer barrel to fit a real upper. The roll pin was much too large to have fit the position indent on the upper, so a 4mm set screw had to be tapped in and machined to fit.

The wire pigtail for their selector board had the purple and black wires twisted prior to soldering onto the board and presented great difficulty in installing the gearbox into the lower receiver.

What I have seen thus far for the 416 has been abyssmal in the fit and finish department, and the performance would have to blow me away to salvage my relationship with this gun. But I have seen alot of PTWs, and at best its performance will be as good as a factory gun, and it will require my TLC and upgrades to get it to my standards.

Overall, I would rate this gun at a 3/10, and only because I have the skills and resources to correct FCCs mistakes and oversights. I rate it this low because for a $3000 gun, it has to be flawless, and not built as it was.

It seems that the best in performance and reliability is buy a Systema, get a rewound motor from Tackleberry and get a CNCd lower. The Noveske I have from FCC was well done, but again so were the Prime ones I have had in the past.

This will be my last FCC gun.

Brad, did you get the full complete gun? or kit and where did you get it? the reason why I asked is what you post here is completely different from what a bunch of other TW owners my self included have experienced, I have both speed and torque and I have no issues with using other systema cylinders or mags, the only one I have issues with fitting are the PTS mags on my 416. I have built 3 416 kits so far and aside from 1 with a mismatch body pins that was shipped with two front pins there have been Zero issues. My finish on the gun both kits and complete gun is flawless in fact I have 1 416 out on loan right now while my buddy wait for his rifle to arrive. There are fake 416 kits out there like the so called systema 416 that some retailers to have claimed as authentic factory build Systema but was made with WE upper and systema lower instead, just want to make sure you didn't get the fake ones like a buddy of mine did. In regards to the buffer tube I have a real non pts magpul CTR Stock off my RS VLTOR that fits with no issue and in regards to outer/inner barrel again it's strange that you are having issues with it, I had mine installed on my former CQBR Max with a RS VLTOR and a secondary Prime upper with no issue. FYI The kits and complete gun comes without sights is your sights a seperate parts that was ordered?

Whoa, first bad review I've read from the others saying FCC 416D are good. The FCC HK416D body I found to be quite good compared to the other ones I've seen. The Moe grip does have the end cap and I am sure you could message FCC and replace it with an Tango down grip as they have great customer service. I've assembled and looked at quite a few of these HK416 and didn't see much wobble in them, so having wobble is not common at all. Also quite strange that you'd be expercing so many problem.

I've seen quite a huge change switch from the PTW/Tack motor to the FCC motor, and a bit more when I switched over to the FCC gearbox.

For there outer barrel, I was able to install this into PTW bodies, I've done a few. Never tried Real Steel upper tho so I cannot comment on that.

When you get a new sun gear make sure you get a new bevel gear as well, since the ratios are different they are different size. The pigtail took a while to get use to when installing into the body but its suppose to help the wire bend into the optics board without getting pinched.

Sucks you are having such a negative experience with FCC products as I've used quite a few from parts from FCC and haven't faced what you have.

Me and My friends have gotten 3 416D from FCC and I haven't had any of the issues that you've had dude. I think the Finish is actually pretty awesome and ive gamed it a good amount and my friends as well and we havnt had any issues with the finish being bad. Like Nova316 said, this is honesty the first post ive seen saying a bad review about the 416D

The 416 kit brad is talking about is the one I ordered. I was looking forward to having a unique tw. I was at brads last night to assist and was completly and utterly dissapointed.

We got my kit and brads factory built 416 from a reputable systema and FCC retailer however I don't think it's courteous to name them as it may negatively affect their sales. These flaws are not the retailers fault, simply the manufacturers.

As I watched brad work and grind on the pieces he had bought for his 7lbs project I wax thinking "isn't this the egsactly reason I got out of aeg and went to ptw, so I don't have to fiddle modify and Jerry rig a gun together? So why are we doing it now with a modular build tw?" I was extremely dissapointed that it seemed the parts were not made with the same tolerances and engineering you would see on a systema. With a systema any part gen1-gen4 is generably reusable/ interchangeable. More over, any real steel part you like will generally install as is or with minor tweeking. To me it seemed either FCC r&d is not as comprehensive or they are deliberately engineering their products so that they are proprietary.

My initial inspection of the fb 416 was unimpressed. The finish of the body seemed lees than impressive. When you open the box of a ptw you go "wow" the finish is top notch it looks and pretty much glows. You wonder if its real or Airsoft. This 416 I opened it and wondered the exact same thing, "is it real or fake?" But in the sense of is it a real tw or is it a Walmart special. Honestly the we 416 on the wall at splatter paintball in gp looks as good if not slightly better visually and that's a $400 gun. And further more, when you picked the gun up the piston clunked back and forth in the gun, the moe grip doesn't sit flush against the reciever. On that note, why is there an moe grip on there? Where's the 416 grip? Why was there a crane stock that looked like it belongs on a dboys m4 on there? Where's the 416 club foot or le style stock? I didn't say it to brad but I would have been furious if I had spent $3k on this gun. I honestly do not see the point of the purchase. I would rather but a systema and buy all magpul furniture a box of mags and possibly a Daniel defense or Troy rail for the same money or slightly less. Now that bring said maybe it will perform great, but how much better than a mcguyvered or tacked ptw can it perform to make up for all the shortcomings?

Thankfully I didn't jump on the 416 let alone the fcc band wagon and I bought the kit against my better judgment ant pretty much against my choice. However the kit left a lot to be desired as well. If anyone remembers the old ptw kits where you had to literally assemble every component, this is the same. From The furniture to the guide and retention receivers on the rail which the retention bolt go through you have to install the Roll pins in the rail that the receivers mount on and if you don't do it right, you can't slide the rail past the gas block. Thankfully we had a spare ptw barrel shim to use on my assembly as FCC couldn't be bothered to send a few in the kit and we needed one to get the barrel nut spaced right to allow the rail retention bolt to be utilized.
The sights, as brad mentioned, the bolt socks out at least 1/4", ya sure if these were dboys sights I'd understand but these are the famed fcc's sights.
Why did I get a ccw thread converter? Why didn't I get a cw one as well?

My lower....
Well as brad said while installing the mechbox the front mechbox retention screw is significantly larger that the rear. Like really!? Are you fucking serious? How the fuck does that happen? Aren't they drilled via a machine and a jig? I could understand maybe done 8 year old factory worker doesn't want to loose their .50$ a day job and maybe used the wrong bit or stripped it while tapping the threads, but no. It's bigger and cleanly tapped. Well maybe theyre proprietary? well wouldnt you think they would thtow the proprietary hardware in as well? It's probably in the same bag as the barrel shims. Go fuck yourself FCC.
Another thing I noticed, most everyone has dealt with a broken lower reciever on their ptw, so why is it FCC would feel the need to drill a small hole on each dude of the back end of the lower reciever- right where the lower breaks on a systema- weakening the integrity of that particular area. Why? Is it to allow adapter airflow? Allow rain, or must in there to cool down my mechbox, clean my gears and clean my optical sensors? Can't be the last one, that is clearly why they sent me a dust cover that I can't close so you can look inside past and below the hop chamber to see your mag. Thankfully rain or must can get in to keep my optics and switch clean and lubed. I think FCC forgot the point of this piece. Or no body told them its called a "dust cover" not a "trap door" for a reason.

All in all, I don't understand why
A) anyone would but a $3000 416 when you can buy a systema and add the items you like. Or even buy a systema and the FCC kit for slightly cheaper.
B) for $1000 why buy the kit? With that ammount of money you could do any number of unique options to you tw platform. From a monolithic upper, to full magpul, to anything else.

Essentially these are for fanboys and wagon jumpers. This isn't a quality item this is a cash grab item poorly made, poorly engineered and poorly finished. I can't see myself selling my ptw over this 416 and unless I somehow get struck by cuspids arrow I don't see myself running this unit on a regular basis or unless I decide to become a reenactor and want to model my team after zero dark thirty.

Since I made the switch over to FCC, I have openly posted up my problems with the products complete with photos here on ASC. That being said, considering what I have paid in parts/rifles I have also exercised my warranty with FCC and have had outstanding success with that avenue. Not to beat an already dead horse, but as PTW owners/users we already know that if something fails on our Systema PTW, good luck talking to Systema about it.. time to go buy a new one. (Evolution Motors anyone?)

Everyone knows I'm gear whore, and that I demand a certain level of retarded quality from the items I purchase. I can say that I have had none of the fitment issues, or quality discrepancies you have encountered, with the exception of the faux body cosmetic body pins. Luckily I had some adhesive kicking around.

My recommendation:
Since it's all covered under manufacturers warranty and quite possibly a store warranty, exercise your right to a non defective product. Take photos, contact FCC, and ship it back.

Ya I guess I should clarify that. I don't hate FCC, your entirly right c3. FCC has immeasurable warranty compared to systema. Anything on your systema goes wronge and its a trip to dtt, mcguyver or tackleberry. FCC is easy to get ahold of no qualms replacing defective parts as I've seen with follow members.
They have gorgeous items like their noveske lower, the 7" barrel brad got the list goes on. FCC is great, these products not so much.

That is so weird Swatt My 416 is a complete build and Spartan177 416 is a kit and from the hi res pics he posted and some of mine thats been floating around it's byfar the best ones I've played around with without the issues you an dBrad are experiencing, I'm not a machinist so I have no qualification as to say if their CNC body is of great quality but my factory build CNC 416 is precise with no blemish, misallignment or any other issues, shit I even lost it for 10 minutes submerged in deep wet snow only three days after I got it. I was expecting a quick shipping to DTT for warranty repair on mine and all I did after i found it was shook off the excess snow and played on (to my surprise) I'm curious with the issue because a buddy of mine bought a Systema 416 from a certain retailer out your end because he could'nt wait for the FCC from DTT and only to discover that it's a WE/Systema/Iron airsoft hybrid and not a authentic Systema as the retailer claimed.

If you do contact them, and I sincerely hope you do considering the amount of money that was dropped... please post your results/updates here. I am sure I am not the only one anxious about seeing the resolution regarding the product you received.

We're currently seeing pinion gear's failing, but are facilitating warranty replacement and repairs on behalf of FCC so that people don't need to wait weeks for their replacement parts. However again the communication with FCC has been outstanding, and everything is being covered.

Mine came from Chris at DTT, along wth all the parts and the kit.

I had a thought this afternoon. I am wondering, since these guns sat at Customs for several months, if the CBSA/RCMP did an inspection on it. The rail retainer pin uses a a flat "+" shaped driver, and I notice mine had been installed with a flatblade as it had marks from where the screwdriver cammed out. I had to use one to remove it, and that os what I noticed. If the Firearms tech disassembled the gun, it mit explain a couple things. But that doesn't explain the kit issues, nor things like the missing faux pin, or the grip end, which has been a noted issue since last summer.

Regardless, this an issue I will have to fix, as sending a gun out to Chris to fix or back to FCC is not necessary when I can do the work myself. My biggest bitch is that I should not have to.

Now, temper this with the fact that even with a Systema you have the motor to deal with, but this has been known for years, it is no surprise to anyone. And my Systema cost me 60% of the 416's price.

I will be speaking to Chris about it.

Well that depends how long it has been sitting at customs the last time customs held some airsoft rifles of mine when they released it they broke the metal body as if they were trying to dismantle the upper and lower but instead of sliding it out they pop it like a normal AR and the body was scratch to shit, looked like as if they were using a very strong magnet to test the body to see if it is a RS lower. In any case you should have taken some pictures and contact FCC before you mod it, they have a 3 month end user warranty on their full factory build guns and if there were anything missing in their kits I'm sure they would like to know about it as it could be just CBSA tinkering with it and what is with the sights you mentioned? The full gun and kits don't come with HK sights.

This gun is unmodified, but I did fix the loose piston rod. It hasn't even been cycled yet

Mods for the other gun have been extensive however, but it is a custom one of a kind piece.

CBSA should have nothing to do with how a product gets threw for a reputable dealer, furthermore a $3000 product I hope was inspected before it left the retailers shop...

McGuyver: I really don't understand the point of holding on to it if its truly that bad, all your going to do is continue to hate yourself for excepting a 3000 dollar piece of garbage 416 or not

I could never sell it someone. I would have to bring it up to my standards first. Besides, after the bitching I just did, who in their right mind would buy it?

Oh I just meant sending it back to DTT...

You'll be surprised on what they will or will not do to a package under scrutiny trust me, I went through that shit so many times it's not even funny anymore and sometime when you have a lot of package that was held up at customs for a long time and customer waiting you want to expedite that package ASAP unfortunately maybe in that rush some has been sent out missing the final QC inspection, either way FCC and DTT are very reputable dealers and manufacturers an dthey always take care of their customers.

My suggestion Brad before you mod it is to contact Chris and show him the defect, FCC do honor their warranty if its a defective product.

Well, tonight I got to put some time in on the 416. As I dug into it, I found a few more things that needed attention.

The hopup sucked. It now has a modified hopup, and later this week it will have Systema adjuster cushions and the spring is history. Neither the 416 barrel nor the 7.5" factory inner barrel assembly could apply enough hop to a .30G BB. My Systema 10.5" inner barrel assembly was miles ahead in range and consistancy. Like 50+ feet and a tolerance of within 5 fps and not 10 fps. The factory FCC adjusters fit very poorly to the inner barrel, and yet I remember a couple of other hopups I had assembled last fall that I noted fit well.

The 416 lower would not accept a Magpul nor a Troy real trigger guard. It does now.

The dust cover was replaced with a real one I had that I had ground the lock off of. And it stays shut, like it is supposed to.

The motor brushes had the wiring run outside the brush hoods instead of inside the spring track. This is a guaranteed motor failure when the brushes wear and are inable to move due to the friction of rubbing over the brush hoods. The brushes themselves do not appear to have any appreciable silver content. Silver is used to add strength to what is essentially pressed carbon, and as such resist excessive wearing. This is a plus and a minus. On the plus side, it is less likely to wear on the commutator. On the minus side, the brushes themselves will wear very fast and are prone to sustain more arc damage, as well as being brittle and subject to breaking in half. Overall, the minus side has more sway here than the positive. I haven't decided yet if I will change them to Systema 30% silver brushes, but I probably will. The motor that came with the 416 was a 2.5, and it suffers from the same poor fitting brush hoods that make installing a grip a son of a bitch. I also noted that FCC has used metal screws to secure the brush hoods with a little insulating washer. I do not like this at all, and the fate of a FET board is contingent on them staying in place x 4. Systema uses nylon screws, a better, non-conductive option.

The buffer cap was, well, ridiculous. It fit poorly, but this was not limited to FCC brand, a Systema fits just as poorly in this gun. They are both loose on the buffer and will wiggle nearly all the way out with little encouragement. When I removed it, there were 8 shims on the cap, which is about twice as many as the most I have ever seen on any gun. But, FCC had no choice, as 1 extra turn of the buffer tube set it too deep to allow the buffer to be installed with zero shims. The only solution was to replace the FCC cap with a Systema cap.

The only remaining items is to cut the screws for the FCC 416 sights and paint the ends and replace the sun and bevel gears to allow use with other cylinders. This is a bitch both FCC and Systema have to bear. WTF was the point of an M160 in an FCC or an M165 in a Systema? Those avenues should never have been pursued, they were a waste of time, money and resources. FCC could have learned from Systema' mistake there.

The MOE grip is going to go. I may cut a MIAD for it later, who knows, that item was reserved for my other FCC hybrid project.

This of course is all before the the gun has itself even seen 1 round, and reliabilty and performance have yet to be judged. I will say now that FCC is going to be subject to my standards the same as Systema, and the primary factor is going to be performance. Reliability will come over time.

Overall, I am meh on the 416. I was not wowed upon box openning and remained un-wowed after going over the gun. I have a great deal of experience with high-mileage Systema guns, and I am just not certain on the longevity of the FCC, there are quite a few little quirks that I am not sold on yet, like planetary tooth pitch and gear lash, as well as material and finish quality of the geartrain as a whole, from rack to bevel. I am also not yet sold on silicone grease in the cylinder, it doesn't work well in Systema cylinders, and there is very little design difference in the FCC to lead me to believe it will work well in their cylinder.

We shall see.

Well Brad, I still think that you should have just returned the items back to the retailer, If you have so many issues with it its obvious you have a flawed product. I presently have 3 Full Factory build rifles and 1 kit with out issues nor do I have to do any "Fluff and Buff" on any of them and some of them have been shot in excess of 50K of bbs in less than a year. I've never been happier other than the day when I got my Tackleberry/prime "Fluff and buff" CQBR.

FCC Rifles are the first PTW base rifle that I owned that I don't have to do anything to them and work great out of the box, that being said are they perfect? no but close, I have NEVER had any issues with their products, service or quality, so much so that I'm endorsing them over stock Systema anyday and their quality speaks for themselves with the amount of players that are very satisfied with their products. Your knowledge on Systema PTW is well respected but the one thing that got me questioning your review is why would you not returned a flawed product and instead voiding the factory warranty by doing the "fluff and buff" on it? and what you post here is pretty much the opposite of almost three dozen other FCC 416D owners that have nothing but great things to say about their 416D rifles.

I am really not all that worried about the factory warranty to be honest. If something is going to break, it is not worth my time or expense to send it out when I am likely the most qualified guy in North America to service it anyway. Besides, Systema never offered any warranty to speak of (Wallace's or a retailer's goodwill excepted), and I have had no problem keeping those going for years.

Now, whatever does break, if it does, is not really going to be fixed by replacing the broken item with one of the same, if it is a flaw in materials or design. If not, then no worries.

Besides, I committed to buy one from Chris back in December, and good or bad, I am not going to return it. I will fix it and make it better. But I will update this thread periodically if need be, and good or bad, FCC should heed what I have to say on this matter. I am a service guy, my job is to investigate faults, perform forensics, fix what is broken and keep it from happenning again. FCC is not perfect, nor am I, but together we can find common ground to make their product better. And trust me, it does need improvement.

And I am 150% certain nobody has looked at these rifles from the perspective I approach them with.

^^^ THIS ^^^ is exactly where I am seeing the disparity in the opinion of quality of the product in this thread.

Not to say your opinion is invalid, Jay, but I know Brad scrutinizes his products down to the detail outside before usability takes place... as well as after. Whereas I know for yourself, as well as 99% of other users out there, they only care about the product working as it should - particularly since I know you beat your guns pretty hard.

As a service guy and builder myself, I can totally see where Brad is coming from. I have not fully molested an FCC rifle inside and out, but have worked on my PTW extensively, and have been in agreement with Brad's findings, always.

Anyways, my point is simply to say, that neither of you are wrong, and Jay, you should try and see where Brad is coming from as well. It really can help to create a better product at the end of the day, especially when the opinion comes from someone who has dozens of these products go through his hands each year. There is loyalty, and then there is taking constructive criticism when it's offered. This is the best kind of advice/criticism that any product/service provider can receive, as it is positive.

Well I do admit I beat the crap out of my gun but on the other side of the coin If I paid $3K for my toy gun and it has all the issues that Brad got I would certainly return it before I mess around with it especially when the manufacturer are willing to back their products no matter how good you are with repairing you can't beat the knowledge of teh manufacturer. When I received my 2012 PTW and it died after 3 mags trust me Wallace got an earfull after Systema refused to acknowledge the issue and unfortunately he can't do anything about it except sending me another motor. My point is I'm not doubting Brad's expertise in the matter but in his decision to fix the issue itself instead and not telling the guys at FCC or in this case Chris at DTT, both of them have excellent CS and coms. To be fair Brad's issue with the 416 is the first I've heard and also the first FCC have heard even from their more hard core user in Sweden and Europe. They are listening and they(FCC) are constanly changing their design to better and distanced themselves from Systema. The method they test their products is in the field and not in the factory, there are limitations as to what they can or cannot produce due to firearms law in HK but they always try to make the best products for example the motor, using more silver in the brushes is good however the more its used the faster the contact on the rotor is going to be worn.
Brad may take the details very seriously and he certainlybreak it down to the last part while guys like me will take the performance factor very seriously that is why we have a constructive disagreement if you will about the quality of this FCC product. In any case both of us have a very different constructive review or maybe Brad just got a lemon, as I stated before I have RS and Systema parts in my 416 that fit with no issue, I got FCC Built rifles that has been shot in excess of 50K rounds with out an issue except missing fake body pins, no issue with buffer tube fitments nor do I have issues fitting Systema cylinders in my torque or speed gear box set. I mean buffer tube is buffer tube and I'm sure Systema didn't make that much of a difference in their cylinder design especially the diameter and the CNC body is byfar the best one I have seen in almost over 23 years playing airsoft, there are HD pictures and video of other owners 416D from FCC with Systema gearbox in this review not just mine with almost a 1000 units sold world wide (kits and full rifles) without issue and all of a sudden Brad have all these issue with them it sound quite strange and unusual, if it were someone else other than Brad this would have been turned into a systema fan boy shit slinging fest. There are small issues with motors and MOE grips etc but not in the capacity that has been reviewed here, my 416 with the MOE grips was lost in deep snow while playing three days after i got the rifle for 10 minutes before it was found and all I did was shook off the excess snow and its shooting fine.

I'm sure nobody aside from you have done it, but I'm pretty sure no one has used the rifle like the way I do. lol

Consider, that Brad hasn't even fired the gun yet, versus someone like yourself who probably took it right to the field and started using it right away. There's the difference. His expectations of the very little things are quite different from an end user.

Likewise, where I specialize in 1911's & Hi-Capas, I work on a little things in the guns that end users would never care to think about, nor know to look for it till 5k or 10k rounds later, an issue would have popped up because of it. Not a single one of my pistols are ever fired, before I've completely gutted it and built it up to what I would expect to be "acceptable." (and you CAPS guys know how many times I've showed up at a match, firing a gun that's never had a round shot through it before... LOL)

Brad's not saying his gun wasn't working right out of the box. He made no mention of things blowing up. He's just saying that in his particular application, several parts weren't compatible (due to non-standard dimensions), and there were a number of annoyances that he didn't find acceptable to his standard.

His point still stands, that he can tell FCC or DTT about the issues, but if he's one of the most qualified technicians in North America to get it fixed anyways (he's not saying he couldn't get it fixed... he's perfectly confident in doing so), then he might as well do it himself. At the end of the day, he just wants to get THIS gun up and running. I'm sure DTT and FCC have, or will, see this thread and see what issues he has with it. Neither him, nor myself have any doubt otherwise. It could very well be the first time they've heard of these issues, but it's also the first time Brad's got this kit in his hands.

I ahev spoken to Chris about it. I have not spoken to FCC. I don't expect that I ever would. I never spoke to Kumi neither, not like she would have cared really anyways. But that doesn't mean FCC can't listen to what I have said and contact me if they need more info.

I was pretty thorough with this gun, but there is more to come. I have not openned the gearbox yet, but it is going to happen.

These issues are mainly small. There are a couple that could become huge if the circumstances were right, or time and tide take their toll. None of them are difficult to remedy at the manufacturing stage, some are tolerance issues, some are simply QC.

I may even try to game the 416 this week. Then I will have a feel for performance.

Thanks Brad for the very thorough review. While it's disappointing to hear a customer who isn't satisfied with a product, it provides very important feedback to the retailer as well as the manufacturer about areas that need to be improved upon. I have had many customers who have been thrilled by their FCC products and a few who have had some problems. While I would love to hear that everyone has the same great experience, knowing there are areas of improvement helps FCC in making their products better. And that for me is the big difference between Systema and FCC. In my experience, FCC listens to the feedback put out there and makes the changes necessary. They offer a 3 month warranty on their products because they are confident in them. These are the main reasons why I promote FCC over Systema these days. Their reputation is extremely important to them so don't think that this information is going to be ignored.

Keep the discussion going.

Hello Mr. Mcguyver:

On behalf of FCC, we are highly appreciate your valuable feedback but deeply sorry to learn your bad experience. Please accept our apology.

I have well noticed the topic discuss here, we have sold lots of 416 complete rifle / set but have not receiving so many issues as mentioned. However, I believed back and forth comments here may not resolve the case. We are open to discuss with you, may you please contact us at service@ptwcustom.com? Our customer service team will follow up your issue and exchange if photos on situations mentioned. Thank you

Await your email soon.

Best Regards
Team FCC

the question i have it is have anyone talk to the FCC team for warranty service?
I have they gave me proper directions and support.
Fight Club Custom is so far the only manufacturer that so far that offers a warranty or even SUPPORT for their product. Yes a good retailer would help out but thats out of their own pocket.
so far I have yet to see a retailer that is able to go back to the manufacturer and get warrantied parts.
I have own a PTW for many years now and first time using their product and i am very happy.
mcguyver you have even worked on my gun before. I'm pretty hard on my stuff. I have yet to have a a failure.
In closing contact the retailer and or Fight club custom where you got the product from. They are good people and willing to help if you give them the chance.

Fight Club Custom is so far the only manufacturer that so far that offers a warranty or even SUPPORT for their product.


Kwa does offer a warranty and there support can be very helpfull at times too. Probably not comparible to fcc but still good to have when its needed

This is honestly the first time ive seen such terrible reviews on the 416 platform. I own 3 FCC rifles and beaten them up bad and have never had any issues, especially the motor. Ive gone through multiple motors including ones with the tackleberry mod as well. Honestly If i ever had this many issues with a gun i would have returned it and gotten it warrantied. FCC is really good for that.

As said before, the warranty here is not the issue, as he (mcguyver) is able to do the correction himself.
Personally, after such a review, I understand 100% why he prefer to do it himself. I would do the same.

I think the main conclusion here should be: everyone concerned, listen to what he says, and learn from him.

It was never about the warranty but the review Brad given is like complete opposite what myself and other owners have experienced especially when it comes to the CNC body I'm no CNC specialist but I think myself and the rest of the other owners can tell whether a CNC body is poorly machined, the details which Brad described I went through myself with my own rifle and have found no similarities or even close to what he has described. I run a systema cylinder on my 416 without the fitment issue Brad has mentioned, I have a RS CTR stock of my RS VLTOR Carbine that fit with no issue, no wobble. A CNC body is precise, FCC body I find when assembling my XM kit is a bit more precise resulting in a tighter fit than my Prime or my stock Systema and it fit and shoot without issue. The reason for my interest in this matter is because of what Brad has said which is completely reversed and far off from what I or everyone ese who have the FCC rifle have experienced that it's almost unbelieveable, if it were not for Brad's expertise in PTW a whole bunch of us would have dismissed it as a troll.
In any case Win from FCC has already respond so hopefully Brad do get in touch with them.

I will take the 416 out on Thursday and Saturday to run it through its paces. Now, I won't be able to really judge performance as it no longer has the factory hopup. It was not up to my standards so it now has a modifed adjuster.

I will be able to judge the mechanics of the gun. After that, and when I have some time, I will break it all down into a concise point-by-point post to detail everything I have seen, every modification or repair I have had to make. I have already sent pictures up the chain.

If you all can be patient for perhaps a week, I will have more for you.

And FCC guys, I will let you know what I have found. Rest assured that so far I have not found any systemic faults with your products. There have been some tolerance issues, some quality control issues and some performance issues which I have been able to address already. However, I am able to do it, some folks are not. Your product can be better, and getting there is not difficult, but does require some perserverence and attention to details.

I will conact you when I have more information for you.

I should also note that the only reason I did not return it is because the time and cost involved to send it back to Chris was really a pointless excersise as I could fix it up myself in much less time and with less expense. The issues I noted on teardown would likely have been missed by oretty much everyone anyways. Not to dis anyone, but I am very thorough and very fussy, as I expect, or better demand, performance, as I know what the platform is capable of. I am not concerned if my warranty is void, there is pretty much nothing in the PTW platform I can't handle, except the armature rewind, I send those to Tony.

I have heard many good reviews about the HK416D but one bad one though, even tho it wasn't that bad as the new ones come with Tango grips. I'll have to take a very close look at one myself to see if I notice these problems as I have built and fixed a lot of TW.

I have been following the Zero Dark Thirty HK416D build for a while now on FCC/FCC Canada and notice that they are for sale at the Double Tap Tactical Website.

Do you have any idea when they will be in?
Are the presales there because there are only 14 of them?

Sorry for the thread hijack but I'll review it when I get one in my hands to see if what I find matches up with Mcguyvers, also seeing his points that he brought up. Thanks.

There was 15 and yes the preorder is due to the small limited number and TW-Works got the other 38 units with ambi selector for their grand opening special eta for their arrival is mid to end of july