Is a 11.1 volt 25c lipo too strong?
 

I made the mistake of not looking at the C rating of a battery I ordered a few days ago, its a Intellect 11.1v 25C 3300mah LiPo Brick. I'm worried that it might be too much for my gun to handle. The gun I'm putting it into is a VFC m16. I'd like some second opinions on this as I've never used a battery this hot before in an AEG.

My personal take on it is that VFCs gear boxes are real tough, but that 25c rating might be pushing it. I'm more worried about the resistance in the wires resulting in over heating, but I plan to re-wire the gun with low resistance wires and deans connectors to help with the heat issue. If the motor height is in the sweet spot then it 'should' be okay to run in smei auto.

The gun is going to need a mosfet to further reduce the resistance and eliminate of arcing on the trigger contacts. I might as well throw that in while I re-wiring the gun.

Any how, what is your take on this issue?

What is the mah on the battery?

It doesn't matter.
Some guys here run their guns off 90C LiPos. The C rating only dictates the MAXIMUM draw of the battery. Higher C ratings also have lower internal resistance, so it increase ROF very slightly, but not by a serious amount.
Between my 1800mah 20C and 4900mah 40C you can't even audibly hear the difference in ROF.
It's pretty standard for people to run 20-40C LiPo's outside of a stock tube.

What spring is in the gun? What is the capacity of the battery (need this to know what the rating in amps is)?

25C is just a rating which means the battery is capable of drawing that much current safely. If your motor doesn't need that much it's not going to draw anymore than if you had a 20C lipo in there so as long as you're not going to be going crazy with the full auto it should be okay. If you're pulling anything under an M120 or M130, the 11.1V might even be overkill. The ROF will be insane but without a MOSFET my guns would over-spin with 11.1V lipos.

It is a Intellect 11.1v 25C 3300mah LiPo Brick I bought form airsoft parts Canada.

That's some good information right there. Do you run a mosfet on your guns? I'm thinking of getting the Generation-3 ASCU mosfet system when that comes out in a few months.

It's a stock VFC gearbox, I'm not sure what kind of motor they use in them.

What spring is in the mechbox?

It's a M110 spring. It shoots about 400-420 fps with a 509 inner barrel.

You're not going to draw more than 15A with any airsoft gun unless something is going on with your motor.
Most stock guns draw anywhere from 4A to 12A, mostly dependent on the motor.
Like a stock systema Magnum may draw as much as 30A because it's arcing through the end bell. But a 400fps 1300rpm gun with a well tuned motor may only draw 15A.
20C with 1200mah is very safe. 20C with 3300mah can handle pretty much anything you hook up to it lol

And yes I do run mosfets on all my guns.
IMO it's pointless to run LiPo without even a simple mosfet, mainly due to safety. Having a mosfet with a resettable fuse may save your lipo from toasting. And most importantly, it will save your trigger contacts, not just from a higher voltage of the 11.1v, but from the higher amp load of a LiPo, which even a 7.4v on sustained fire could cause your contact block to melt.

If you want more info on LiPo, they're explained in great detail here;
http://www.airsoftcanada.com/showthread.php?t=99899

Not really, this is only really true for Marui-spec guns running weak springs and slow ratio gears, and is somewhat artificially capped by Tamiya connectors.

Drawing 25A to 35A of continuous (non-burst) current is common and not at all abnormal, and not at all indicative of something going on with your motor. I am working with someone to contribute my part towards a wider array of data on this, but evidence/data coming soon.

For now I'll say that 25-35A of continuous is absolutely within spec for a range of motors, battery types, gear ratios and spring strengths, mostly higher spring strengths and mostly higher-torque motors, but totally fine. There has been data gathered by folks over at ASM to indicate that spikes or bursts are a couple times higher than that on some setups.

it's hard to find that thread on airsoft mechanics with all the testing they did
I'm sure your crazy ass guns are drawing 35A lol
But guns like my 249 that are specifically built for maintaining full auto draw significantly less current since it's built to lessen the load on the motor. But yeah it depends heavily on the setup, spring gears shimming motor etc.
But to give you a reference point, PTW's usually draw around 20A. That's why the ROF goes up quite a bit when you go from the old firefox 12C (13A cont) to a real LiPo that supplies the 20A it needs lol

What kind of mosfets do you guys use? I dont need any thing to fancy, I was actually planing on building one myself and testing it out on my JG g36c.

Try a merf 3.2 if you want rof controll and 3rnd burst or they vave another simpler one. Either one can just be pluged in between the batery and gun fora simple installation.
Chect out airsoftstore.ca the got a cpl of good fets
http://www.airsoftstore.ca/index.php...ex&cPath=35_34
They wer spose to get a small ass one too but i dont see it yet. Pico i think it was called.

As cheap as they are, it's difficult to justify making your own

Crossing my fingers - tomorrow. They're in Mississauga right now.

We had them before, but after Steve blew up a few of them we decided to pull them from the store and give Gate some feedback.

Guess what? They listened and the new ones are enroute. They're beefier versions designed to handle 11.1v Lipos and higher current draws.

wouldn't fulll auto draw less amps than semi... keeping momentum going is a lot easier than trying to overcome resistance from a dead stop.

Same as my understanding as well. Semi heats up the motor nice and quick. IIRC guys on ASM were saying that it takes nearly 3 to 4 times as much current on semi versus full auto.

Unfortunately the watt meter I picked up can't detect the initial draw required. All I have are numbers for continuous full auto 3-4 second draw.

very yes
firstly, active braking causes a LOT of heat buildup
and starting a motor takes way more energy than it does to keep it going

That's how I can manage a ridiculous 400mah/2000 rounds on my 249

Sorry to be slightly off topic, but what is your reasoning behind running such a small capacity battery? Either way, that's a very good bb per mAh ratio!

Lol. He means by running 2000 rounds he has only used 400mah off his lipo. That's not the size of his lipo

Sweet i knew i seen you posting about them befor. Just the size of them was impressive seeing them next to a few bbs and they wer about that size (3bbs or so) im quite happy with the merf3.2 i got off of you and will definately be grabbing another to stick in my AK when it arrives. (ill probably even wire it in advanced mode seein as j wont have to open the gearbox to do it. Been tryin to figure out how to fit one in my mp5k but it seems ill have to swap from a 9.6 stick to an 8.4 to fit it not too sure i wanna do that.

Ahh I figured I missed something. It makes sense now that I've re-read the post.

The crazy-assedness of my guns is overblown, I gotta play field limits just like everyone else :)

Stealth is lending me his measuring device tonight (I've got my own on order soon) so I'm hoping we can release some interesting data for everyone to look at.

So will a 400fps gun (vfc scar with stock red motor) cause issues with a 15c lipo (11.1 1100mah)?

the vfc scar's electrical system is a topic of much debate. The way it was designed to have no wires from the battery compartment to the point it gets into the gearbox creates a lot of electrical resistance. Wiring a mosfet in is a challenge because of this.

That said, a 15c 11.1v 1100mah lipo probably won't make it shit the bed. You're losing some current in all the transfer points.

Ok thanks. I have a merf 3.2 just in the stock with the lipo. Seems like it trips the fuse every once in a while and was wondering if that was why.

I was going to say, I wouldn't run it without a mosfet lol
However the reason it's tripping the fuse is because the FUSE is overloading, not necessarily the battery.
So your batt can handle 16.5A, but maybe it's only a 12 or 15A resettable fuse?
Either way, it's a good warning sign.
Is your grip getting REALLY hot after 20 fast shots of semi auto? If so, you should seriously consider getting your mechbox reshimmed, or a new motor.

I had to get something beefier than a triggermaster for my 249 because it kept blowing the fuse with G&P motors (M120 and M140, both professionally tuned). I switched to an EF1300 and it drew WAY less amperage, also has way better performance when hot.

You are talking about the smaller versions, not the MERF 3.2 right? I've been looking at buying a MERF 3.2, do they heat up much? I do like how they can limit the rate of fire in full auto, I am curoius how do they achieve that cut to the rate of fire ?

Do they internally limit the current flowing though the motor? Or do they simply cycle the system on and off based on a delay timer? Limiting current sounds dumb to me, so that's probably not it. Timer sounds logical.

I really want the 11.1 volt for the trigger response, not nessciarly the fire rate. How dose the smart trigger factor into full auto, is the first shot as snappy as semi and then tapers off?

first shot is 100%, the rest are reduced
It has to be cycled, pretty sure it would melt if it resisted 30% of my current lol

What voltage of a Lipo are you using? Do you have the correct battery selected in the menu? See linked video for instructions. I'm pulling 25-33A on my MERF (advanced wired) and have yet to trip the fuse. It's rated at 50A continuous for 3 minutes and is the most robust of Gate's offerings.


Just as Thunder says - 100% on Semi. Full auto is reduced.

Check out this video: Gate MERF 3.2 Installation and Programming Video - YouTube

Start at 4:15, and end at 4:30.
Start again at 6:45 and end at 7:18

Thats cool, sounds like it would make for a gearbox lifetime extender. Save me some money in the long run. Do you ever use the burst function? I suppose becuase the next two shots are followed so closely after the first they would reduce the motor heat up. Unless it uses active breaking in burst mode, dose it? That would increase motor heat up as far as I know.

Also total sidetrack here, but what are you opinions of VFC pistons? I've hard good and bad things about them.

active breaking is always active, but yes it would actually reduce the heat compared to 3 individual shots in semi.
As a gunsmith I prefer burst since it's easier on the motor
As a shooter, I hate burst because the last 2 shots are uncontrolled, unless there's a burst cancel function like the old triggermasters that actually stops the burst if you take your finger off the trigger.

I use the burst function because I don't want to waste BBs. At 30RPS you go through ammo pretty quickly if you don't have any self discipline.

SHS Motors are great handwarmers. Lonex's not so much. It's partly why we stopped carrying SHS motors and exclusively carry Lonex now. For another 15 dollars you can get a motor that outshines anything on the market. Lonex motors are just far more efficient.

VFC Pistons - got two lying around - took them out of two VFCs I have and promptly replaced them with Lonex and SHS pistons. Not a fan of polycarbonate.

Side note and tangent: VFC gearbox piston rails seem to be fatter than other manufacturers. Make sure you test out Lonex and SHS pistons during install to make sure they slide freely. Some sanding/fitment may be required.

John

Are SHS the motors in VFC gearboxes?

Bummer to hear about the VFC pistons, I was looking at the lonex red, is it compatible with VFC stock gears? If so I'll probably pick it up.

On that same topic, what is your opinion of aluminum piston heads?

Also some one told me at my local store that you need a cylinder head or piston head to correct angel of engagement. I dont think that's true, but my m16 is the first gun I'm going to correct the AOE on, so I'm not sure.

g36... boxmag and 38 rps.




hmmmmmmm

I haven't noticed the grip getting hot, I have thought it seemed warm, but just assumed it was from my hand. Ill test further. Mechbox is in good order, motor could be on the way out. Its just not as snappy as it should be, my KA m4 with a 9.6 allows me to pull the trigger quite a bit faster.

Stealth- ya I have it configured properly as per the online guide (its 11.1 btw), I was actually concerned the 15c was too low and that's what was tripping it, I'm new to all this stuff. Also this is not advanced wired, but I was getting 3 round burst somehow at the end of the game last weekend. Could that have been due to the battery getting low on charge?

No. VFC uses ferrite motors. Although SHS used to be OEM for King Arms and some other companies in the past for gears and what-not.

Yes it's compatible...

No. Adds unnecessary weight to the piston assembly.
Read this:
http://www.airsoftstore.ca/index.php...page=page&id=7

No. Read article on piston heads above.
Use a "stock" piston head and get a Sorbo Pad to correct AoE. It's $5.
http://www.airsoftstore.ca/index.php...dex&cPath=35_3

Also, stop going to that store and start going to one where you can get advice from people who know what they're talking about.

Yes it does stop burst once you release the trigger so if you tap it youll get one shot if you hold it after that youll get a two round burst. I love the burst function saves ammo and puts the three rounds down range for those run n gun situations and hits three rounds in the same general area to supress the enemy beter tho yes i agree even with the slight vibration an aeg makes the two folowing shots are not on target with the first one but they are close enough thatvif you miss with one the next should hit and i find it works well for those quick point n shoot times when you dont have time to actually aim at your target

Sounds like you need BBs for that box mag... Wink wink

I would run through all the settings again to make sure everything is set properly.

You can still get burst in simple wired mode. I just find it odd that you are getting burst without enabling it.

Do you have a multimeter or lipo cell checker handy? Test out your battery when it is fully charged. It should read 12.6v and all cells should read 4.2v plus minus 0.1v.

John

Will do, thanks stealth!

Didn't realize I could get burst mode, ill go through it all again and make sure everything is setup correctly.

Ill look into getting my lipo checked aswell.
Thanks again

sounds like Ineed a boxmag first. :P

can't seem to find any feedback or reviews on any of them except the STAR/ARES one won't feed beyond 20rps, and the dboys one is crap.

That really leaves the a&k one or the CA one.. which costs almost 3x more.

As for ammo, I'm doing a test between green devils, your sekret ammo and goldenballs.

unfortunately green devils are only .28, and the goldenballs are .28 and .30... sekret ammo is the only one of the 3 that were available in .32

M4 conversion magwell and a M4 box mag?

I used to run 3 shot burst, but found it was just useless. Its just as easy to just get 3 rounds off on full auto, and then you also have full auto if you need it.